An aerospace engineer discovers LCA and launches a podcast
Who: Nathan
What: Sustainability consultant and podcaster
Where: Seattle
Why: My family
Though the term has been around since at least 2004, it’s starting to seem like everyone has a podcast these days. Partly due to the ease of recording high-quality audio and video, as well as the ability to publish and share widely, podcasts have really taken off, with nearly 3 million podcasts and more than 150 million episodes as of the end of 2022. Not all of them are dedicated to sustainability – but Nathan’s is.
Nathan is the founder of The Net Zero Life, a podcast that ”shares the lessons, ideas, and philosophies from leaders in climate so everyone can move the world towards net zero.” He’s interviewed everyone from Mark Tercek, former CEO of The Nature Conservancy, to the head of climate at Stripe (and even Julia’s boss, Rob!), in the course of four seasons of podcasting. But what about Nathan’s own net zero journey? How did he come to climate podcasting and a career in sustainability? We talked to him to find out.
The life-changing art of lifecycle analysis
Building on his early background in engineering, Nathan enrolled in a Master of Science in Industrial and Product Design program at USC. In the program, he took a class called Industry and the Environment with Dr. Robert Vos. The class was “all about lifecycle analysis, greenhouse gases, and the impact industry has on our planet,” and it “completely changed my life,” Nathan says. He realized that lifecycle analysis (LCA), or calculating a product’s total impact on the environment, was in part both an art and a science due to the complexity of identifying all of the impacts associated with a product. Despite having trained and worked as an engineer, he fundamentally “felt more like a creative, in that storytelling and morality were very important” to him. Something about the art of sustainability unlocked that creativity in him, and he’s never looked back.
Building on his work in engineering positions at Sikorsky and Boeing, Nathan joined the team at Amazon Air. Soon after he became part of the company, Amazon announced its Climate Pledge program, which was fortuitous timing for his growing interest in sustainability. He founded the Amazon Air sustainability working group and got an inside view into the company’s climate practices. While Amazon has received plenty of media attention for its major climate initiatives, including the pledge, the company’s actual impacts on the environment have somewhat mixed reviews. Still, establishing the pledge, getting other companies on board and putting in big orders for electric vehicles show that Amazon is making an effort and serving as an example to others.
After working at Amazon, Nathan moved to Persefoni, a carbon management platform where he served as a sustainability expert on carbon accounting and net zero decarbonization. In his time there, he learned a lot about the many calculations, both financial and social, that are involved in business decisions on sustainability. This growing awareness of the complexity of business decisions around carbon led him to zoom out a bit from carbon accounting and examine sustainability consulting as a possible way to impact climate change on a different scale.
He took a turn to BCG, a consultancy that has itself committed to become net zero by 2030 and is developing the expertise to help clients make the same shift. While it had been “a guess” before he joined as to whether consulting would be a fit for him, and “you can argue whether consultants help or not,” Nathan believes “there is going to be a group of people that go into every company and help them figure out” how to address climate change. He might as well help make sure that group is providing great advice. Ultimately, he’s found consulting to provide “the perfect combination of industry expertise plus sustainability experts working on the same team.”
“Consulting delivers ‘the perfect combination of industry expertise plus sustainability experts working on the same team.’”
Objection handling
At times, Nathan (like others we’ve profiled) has encountered some resistance to sustainability goals; typically, the level of buy-in to the mission depends on the direct client for consulting services. Still, he finds that “on average, people are excited about sustainability, notwithstanding the polarization” that can sometimes occur on the topic. From his perspective, the best way to address this polarization is by “showing how sustainability drives positive social outcomes.”
For example, Wyoming could be one of the nation’s largest sources of wind energy, and a major economic growth driver in Georgia is EV production and supply chain. So why would these states want to resist sustainability? We’re already at the point where digging in further with fossil fuels is financially unsound – and savvy businesses realize this.
From a sustainability perspective, Nathan considers equity and justice clear “priorities” and says addressing these areas provides a “great ‘return’ on investment.” Ultimately, “climate action [is] another tool in narrative building to provide more investment in those crucial areas,” reflecting the pressing need for truly transformative commitments to sustainability.
Going on record with a podcast
As he pursued his professional goals at various companies, Nathan also found himself asking what he was good at that the world needed. He felt that there was an opportunity when it came to creating the “How I Built This” of sustainability – that nut “had not been cracked” yet. So he decided to fill the void and start his own podcast, The Net Zero Life. He connected with a friend who worked in podcasting and embarked on an adventure that’s still incredibly educational, four seasons later. He calls the process of building the podcast a true “journey” and says he’s “always practicing getting people to tell the story.”
As far as who gets to be on the show, the approach has evolved. Nathan started by looking through articles on sustainability topics and identifying interesting subjects, but has reached a point where people are reaching out to him to be on the show. (You might even say the show has become self-sustaining in this way. Ha!) While some prospective guests may have large online followings, Nathan has found that this doesn’t always relate to being an inspiring presence on the podcast. Someone who’s really good on the show must be able to tell a compelling story, and he’s found that people who’ve worked in the same space for a long time tend to have developed a deeper expertise and better ability to spin tales that engage listeners.
In one of his favorite episodes, Nathan discusses the financial and environmental benefits of geothermal heating and cooling with Kathy Hannun, Co-Founder of Dandelion Energy. He also enjoyed speaking with former Nature Conservancy leader Mark Tercek, who’s written a book on the economic benefits of climate investment, and Lizzie Horvitz of Finch, a platform for making more informed consumer choices, as well as the dozens of other ambitious and world-changing guests on his show.
Lessons learned behind the mic
While listening to yourself talk can be “the worst thing in the world,” it’s really helped Nathan better understand how he comes across to others. Podcasting has also been a lesson in how to “truly listen to what someone is saying,” especially as interrupting sounds extra awful on podcasts. He thinks the pod has turned him into a better conversationalist and taught him to be brave and not to worry if someone says no, which are useful strengths for climate discussions.
A day job is still in the cards for now, due to the long tail of podcasts, but there’s always that dream of being a full-time podcaster. Ultimately, Nathan would like for people to be able to “turn the podcast on, go for a walk and get lost in the story,” something I’ve found myself doing. He advises those interested in climate careers to “Invest in your climate knowledge, have coffee chats, and be patient.” Wise words from an experienced storyteller — and someone who knows we’re all in it together.
Takeaways from Nathan
Climate work involves both art and science
Consultants can provide valuable, scalable expertise
Talk to others and embrace learnings from your side hustle
Look for a niche that nobody’s occupying
Nathan’s recommended resources
(with bonus context from his LinkedIn posts)
The Wizard and The Prophet by Charles C. Mann
The New Map by Daniel Yergin
Nature's Fortune by Mark Tercek
Guns Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond
Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari
The Big Fix by Hal Harvey and Justin Gillis
Climate Rising - HBR
Zero - Bloomberg
Catalyst - Canary Media
The Interchange (Shayle Kann's previous show)
Newsletters
The Instigator by Mark Tercek